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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Margaret Maggie Anderson 
May 7, 1985 
Cassette 2, Side 1 
 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  00:04 
This is Kristin Boughton-Morin, my second interview with Margaret, she also calls herself 
Maggie, Anderson. This is the seventh of May, 1985, Seattle, Washington. This is interview 
number two, tape number one, side A. This is a listening check. Okay, when we last talked, we 
ended up, you were telling me about the social atmosphere when you were in college and a little 
bit after college. And I'm wondering what your family, what kind of pressures you were getting 
from your family when you were in your 20s and 30s about marriage or anything like that.  
 
Margaret Anderson  01:02 
I didn't really get a lot of pressure. My brother had gotten married very young, he hadn't even 
graduated yet from-- neither he nor his wife had graduated at the time when they were married. 
And mostly everybody in the family was against that, [?early?] marriages. The only person I 
remember saying much would be my mother, who would occasionally say, "Well, when are you 
going to get married?" After a while, she stopped saying that. I think by the time I was in my late 
30s, I think she'd caught on, because I would say, "I don't think I'm ever going to get married." 
From my father's side of family, I never heard it. Never heard that from anybody. Nobody ever 
said "When are you going to get married," because I had those three unmarried aunts on that 
side. There wasn't a lot of pressure to get married. My mother's second marriage wasn't all that 
great, and I don't know that she really believed that marriage was all it was cracked up to be. But 
I also think that as strong, independent as she was, and as capable a business woman, she still 
had that codependency, you know, on a male. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  01:19 
What kind of business was she involved in? 
 
Margaret Anderson  02:32 
She was a public stenographer. She and my stepfather had a direct mail advertising business, and 
she also did public stenography. She was just very good.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  02:46 
Was it her own business that she had?  
 
Margaret Anderson  02:48 
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Yeah, they, they had the business. And then, then when they divorced, she kept the business and 
at the time of her death, she turned it over to him. She kept it going after their divorce for a 
while, till she got ill.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  03:10 
How, how old were you when you got your graduate degree at Smith? 
 
Margaret Anderson  03:17 
So, I got that degree in '57, so, I was 26, I think I was 26.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  03:30 
And where did you go from Smith? To Duluth?  
 
Margaret Anderson  03:34 
No, I had been on placement at the child guidance clinic in Reading, Pennsylvania. So, I went 
back there to work after I finished my placement. I'm trying to think of when I got my degree, I 
might have been 25, as matter of fact. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  03:47 
Oh, yeah? 
 
Margaret Anderson  03:48 
Yeah, I think I was 25, I spent my 25th birthday there, when I was a graduate student. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  03:55 
And what, what was this clinic you were working in?  
 
Margaret Anderson  03:57 
It was a child guidance clinic.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  03:59 
Child guidance clinic.  
 
Margaret Anderson  04:00 
They don't have those anymore. It was one of the first five in the country, established in the 
country, now they, most of those have been incorporated into regular mental health centers. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  04:12 
What did you do there? 
 
Margaret Anderson  04:13 
I worked, mostly, I worked with children. It was a very traditional kind of setting that one person 
would be talking to the parent, another person would be talking to the child. And after a while, 
that didn't seem very effective to me. I had a couple of cases where I saw the mother and the 
child together at the same time. That seemed a lot more effective to me. And I think eventually 
that's part of how a lot of it's done now, family therapy, but that was a very traditional approach, 
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to see the mother separate, father separate-- If you ever saw the father, you hardly ever got the 
father, and the child separate. And I work closely with children, and was supervised by a child 
psychiatrist. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  04:58 
What-- How old were these children? 
 
Margaret Anderson  05:01 
All ages. I think the youngest one I ever worked with was three and then up into adolescence. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  05:07 
What kind of problems did you see there? Any-- 
 
Margaret Anderson  05:11 
All kinds. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  05:12 
All kinds?  
 
Margaret Anderson  05:12 
Yeah, yeah, kids that were sort of bordering on being autistic, five year old boy that was kind of 
suicidal, teenage girl that was schizophrenic, just all kinds of situations. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  05:29 
And how long were you there?  
 
Margaret Anderson  05:31 
Eight years, I think, counting my year I was placed here as a student. I used to have a very steady 
record. And I left there in '64 and went to Duluth. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  05:46 
And what did you do there? 
 
Margaret Anderson  05:49 
I was at a mental health center. And so I did almost-- I worked with adults and children. Initially, 
the first year I was there because they were building a new building with a new program. But I 
can remember, when I first got there, my first experience, I think I had three suicidal adults in 
my caseload, suddenly, and I'd never worked, you know, with suicidal adults. I was really scared 
for a while. But regular mental health, the kind of work you do as a mental health worker.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  06:23 
Were you a counselor?  
 
Margaret Anderson  06:25 
Yeah, a therapist.  
 
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Kristin Boughton-Morin  06:26 
Okay. And how long were you there?  
 
Margaret Anderson  06:30 
I left there in July of '79, I went there in October of '64 so-- 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  06:38 
Is that when you moved here to Seattle?  
 
Margaret Anderson  06:39 
--15 years. When I left-- No, I had, I left there a couple months after. I went away for treatment 
in January of '79, for alcohol treatment, and then came back after a month, worked for a couple 
months and just couldn't handle it anymore. I just didn't want to do that kind of work, and I was 
just kind of burned out and depressed, which is not an uncommon thing for people when they 
first, in their first stages of their recovery, to feel, to really get into the depression. So, I took a 
couple years off, cashed in my retirement money, and, much to everybody's horror, and took 
some time off, stayed home, learned how to bake bread. It's like, you know, you've heard the 
stories about the women who've been home for 25 years and then suddenly get out into the work 
world. Well, I'd been working for 25 years, and I was just as happy as anything to stay home for 
a while. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  06:39 
And how old were you then? 
 
Margaret Anderson  06:55 
In '79, I was 48. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  07:34 
[?That's interesting?]. 
 
Margaret Anderson  07:47 
 And then I did some traveling, visited friends, out East and Southwest. And then, the second 
year, about '81, decided that I needed to do, to do something. And I did, I did some part-time 
private counseling, and I had a, I opened up a little shop called The Women's Room. And it 
really was, just like a one-roomed shop, carried small books and small presses and women's 
records, like from Lady Slipper and handcraft articles that were made only by women, so, 
everything was women's. But I didn't have enough money, I think, when I opened up, on one 
level, although I always made the inventory and made the rent. I probably, I needed to, I needed 
to probably have a few 1000 more. I started up with just 1000. People wanted, wanted more than 
just a small press books. It's really hard, I think, to have a woman's bookstore now because every 
bookstore town carries women's literature, and all women's books. So, to specialize, I think it's 
pretty hard. But I'd only been, I had it open about two months, two and a half months, when my 
partner, going on nine years, told me that she no longer wanted to be in a primary relationship, 
and she was interested in being a relationship with another person. That was in January, and I 
had a really hard time. I really thought that that was going to be a lifelong relationship, and for 
me, it felt like a lifelong commitment. And the other thing was that, the agreement had been that 
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she would help financially. You know, that, because we were, we had a house that we'd been 
buying together, and we, we didn't have joint bank accounts, but we pooled all our money. But 
then, suddenly, that was no longer feasible, and then it was no longer possible for me to really 
run that kind of shop on the basis [?that it would be?] and then do the part-time therapy. So, then 
I did some part-time work, I got some, I worked for three or four months in a woman's recovery 
program. It's called a halfway house for recovering alcoholics. And I was there while somebody 
else was on leave, and then when they came back, I went and worked for a women's health 
center, what actually was pregnancy counseling and termination, but, what is otherwise known as 
an abortion clinic, and as a counselor. And also, well, you would counsel the person when they 
first came in, you'd meet with them, and then you had to make a decision as to whether or not it 
was going to be an appropriate situation, or whether or not this was something that they really 
wanted to do, that they weren't, and just try to explore all possibilities with them. Then when, 
[coughs] excuse me, when they came in for their abortion, if that's what they decided to do, then 
you were with them during the procedure. Sort of [?follow-up?] through the procedure that day. 
And that felt like really meaningful work, I liked doing that. Obviously, I politically, I think 
that's an okay thing. And I tried to stay in that same city, it's a very small city. And I was in the 
house, and I had the animals in the house, and it was-- and I needed to have some roommates to 
stay there, in order for me to afford, working with the money that I was getting. And it wasn't 
feeling very good, I wasn't feeling very good, and it was very hard. It was very hard for me to, to 
make a recovery from the loss of that relationship. I had two friends that had moved out to 
Seattle about five years previous to that, no, two years previous. And they called one day, said, 
you know, "Why are you still there? You could, you could do just as well out here financially. 
You're working for $5 an hour there, you can work for $5 an hour here, and you could probably 
get a very good job. And why don't you come up?" So I decided within about a couple of days. I 
told my ex partner that, as far as I was concerned, the house could go up for sale or for rent, or 
she could go back in, whatever, and that's what, what happens. We sold off most of the furniture 
and stuff. She moved back to the house, and I packed up my car and came out here. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  13:22 
Did-- Were there some legal things involved there? Did you, did you, so, did you sell her your 
half of the house?  
 
Margaret Anderson  13:30 
Not at the time. Our agreement, at that time, was that we would wait two years, and then we'd 
have, then, either she would buy me out or she would sell the house, but she could have two 
years in the house. And the two years came and went, and we didn't do anything about it. But 
then that following spring, after that, her partner, who had just moved in, in December, contacted 
me in about March, and asked me-- at that time, the house was supposedly up for sale, and there 
were some offers coming in, and I think they decided that probably financially, it was better for 
them to stay in the house. So, her partner offered to, wanted to buy me out. So, that's what, what 
we agreed to do. She gave me certain amount of money a year ago, and then there's some coming 
this year, then there'll be some more coming next year, on a three year period.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  14:32 
Were you paying, making payments on it those these years after you moved out?  
 
Page 6 of 17 
 
Margaret Anderson  14:37 
No, no, I wasn't. No, we worked all that out, so, the point when I moved out, then. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  14:45 
Did you, when you-- Is this Rosemary?  
 
Margaret Anderson  14:48 
Yeah. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  14:49 
Okay, when you and Rosemary got together and made a commitment with each other, did you 
draw up any sort of agreement? You just-- 
 
Margaret Anderson  14:57 
No. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  14:58 
It was just in your heart? 
 
Margaret Anderson  14:59 
Right. Yeah, I don't, I don't know, I know that a lot of people do that, and a lot of people make it 
for a year, and at the end of the year, review it, review where they're at. That makes a lot of sense 
to me. That wasn't where we were at at the time. I don't know if I would do that, if I were in 
another relationship or not. I might, it does make sense to me, but I'm an incurable romantic, 
actually.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  15:29 
When you were moving around, moving to Duluth, and moving here, did you ever feel that you 
had any problems with employment or housing or anything like that, based on the fact that you're 
a woman or that you're a lesbian?  
 
Margaret Anderson  16:00 
Yes. In Duluth, before I, I said I had couple of part time jobs. There were several jobs that came 
up, one in the local family service agency, another in a social service department of a hospital, 
another in a geriatric unit connected with the College of St. Scholastica, which is a Catholic 
institution. They, the [inaudible] team, opened up a, like a geriatric center. And I [?had the?] 
distinct impression that I could not have gotten the job, I acquired about jobs in both those three 
areas, and I think that there were two factors. One was the, not so much being a woman, for any 
of them, but my age, and the amount of experience I had. I mean, I had more experience than 
almost anybody in town in, I mean, it's a small city, right? In terms of clinical experience, I had a 
lot of it. And I think the combination of being an older, experienced woman, as well as being an 
out lesbian, probably was, was a negative. I think, on some level, I think having that much 
experience was more of a hindrance than being lesbian, but-- 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  16:08 
Why do you suppose that is? 
Page 7 of 17 
 
 
Margaret Anderson  17:13 
Well, because I had more experience than any of the people that were interviewing me. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  17:34 
Oh, yeah. Okay, I see. 
 
Margaret Anderson  17:36 
And of course, all the people that were interviewing me were males. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  17:41 
Yeah, I'm familiar with that. 
 
Margaret Anderson  17:42 
Yeah. I, one of them was even, one of them that I knew, slightly. I mean, even when I sat down 
in his office, he just sort of sat, he said, "My," said, you know, "having you here my office is like 
having Virginia Satir with me." And I thought, well, I knew that that was, you know, it was a 
losing proposition, right there.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  18:03 
That was rude. 
 
Margaret Anderson  18:04 
Yeah, I've never thought of myself as Virginia Satir, I only wish. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  18:10 
Is there anything else? Did you ever experience any problem here in Seattle?  
 
Margaret Anderson  18:15 
I think in, I think a couple of the things in Seattle, one was from being out of town, and people 
let me know that, when I first started looking for work; and again, I think sometimes, the amount 
of experience. And I'm thinking of one time I got the distant impression that the person 
interviewing me picked up on the fact that I was a lesbian, and that probably was, was not in my 
favor. But again, I think mostly it was from being out of town and the fact that there are so many 
MSWs looking for work in this town.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  18:59 
Maybe more than any place else you've been?  
 
Margaret Anderson  19:01 
Oh, yeah, hundreds. I mean, they'd tell me there'd be a couple hundred people would be applying 
for a position. And my experience had all been pinnacle. So, I had not been a grant writer, and I 
had not done a lot of administrative work, and there are so many people around and people with 
varied experience, people who have a couple years doing this and a couple years doing that, a 
couple years doing this, and actually that's probably better when you're looking for work. And I 
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have, you know, eight years in a child guidance clinic, as a child therapist, and another 15 years 
as a therapist, but pretty much all my experience was clinical, clinical work.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  19:44 
You mentioned earlier that you had done some work with the Seattle Counseling Center for 
sexual minorities. Was that volunteer?  
 
Margaret Anderson  19:51 
Yes, I was doing about five hours of, putting in about five hours a week there for a year. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  19:58 
Is that, what sort of situation, is that a cooperative, is it, situation there, or is it just self, non 
profit, self-sustaining? 
 
Margaret Anderson  20:10 
No, I think they, they received some funding from agencies, I think probably from United Way 
and I think [inaudible] about the agency itself. And I think they, and then they have a contract 
with DHCS for, oh, I used to know what that term was for certain, for people who are on 
Medicaid coupons, and they were allowed to see so many people on Medicaid coupons and get 
reimbursed for that. When I was there, there were, I think only two, three people who were on 
salary. And that was the director, and then the clinical supervisor, and I think the person that 
supervised the telephone work, and they, because they do a lot of telephone work. And I think 
those were the only three paid positions and everybody else there was kind of a volunteer. There 
might have been some secretarial, clerical, that was paid part-time, but all the therapy was done 
by people volunteering, and the telephone work, everything, it was all volunteer. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  21:14 
What was that experience like for you? 
 
Margaret Anderson  21:17 
It was mixed, I had hoped-- I liked to do volunteer work, I did that, I always worked with some 
agency. You know, I did with sexual assault, for battered women, or the free clinic in Duluth. So 
I did it because, you know, I believe in that, but I also hoped that it would be an opportunity to 
get to know other therapists and other [inaudible]. And that wasn't so because people just, sort of, 
came at funny hours and I came after my regular job and I never really got to meet any of the 
other lesbian therapists, a couple maybe. But, so, it was kind of mixed. I, I enjoyed some of the 
people I met and then it was, it gave me an opportunity to do some individual kind of counseling, 
which I wasn't doing in work, in the work I was doing.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  22:16 
Was it exciting for you to do counseling specifically for lesbians? 
 
Margaret Anderson  22:22 
No, because I'd been doing that all along. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  22:24 
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Oh, okay. 
 
Margaret Anderson  22:24 
It was part of my work at the, both privately in Duluth and also at the mental health center I 
worked at, people could call and ask to see me specifically, or to see anybody. So, by the time I 
left there, I had a pretty selective case load. I worked with only women, pretty much, and some 
of them lesbians and people in alternative lifestyles, or regular straight women. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  22:54 
Speaking of regular straight women, what other kinds of relationships have you had that have 
been important to you besides your lover, lesbian relationships? 
 
Margaret Anderson  22:24 
Yeah, I thought that I'd talked before, last time, about this friend that I was visiting in Phoenix, 
maybe not. I just came back from a week, almost a week, now, in Phoenix with a women who 
had been a social worker with me at the clinic in Duluth, and who had actually pursued, you 
know, the relationship, as a friendship. And, so we-- Well, she left Duluth in '69 and we have 
been just really close friends. And for a while, long time there, I would visit at least once a year. 
Now, sometimes it's, maybe it's once every two years before I get [inaudible] see her. Her 
husband was also a good friend. But we maintained telephone and [?light?] letter, you know, 
contact all those years. Since I've been out here, I've become very close to a gay man that is very 
important to me. And I have some friends back in Duluth who are straight, a man and his ex 
wife, who initially were very good friends of mine and then, at the time of their divorce, I stayed 
friends with both of them. And then, he's living with another woman and I'm friends with the 
[?two of them?], he and this other woman that he's involved with, very good friends with them, 
and still with his ex wife. And then I have a couple other friends in Duluth, also who are straight 
that are really good friends, as well as, you know, lesbian friends. And these are friendships, you 
know, that go back 15, 20 years. I didn't keep in touch with friends until I moved to Duluth, and 
when I left, when I left Winnipeg to go to graduate school, I sort of left those people behind. 
Benj was probably the only person I kept in touch with. She was, she'd also left Winnipeg and 
gone onto State's graduate school. When I left Pennsylvania, came out to Duluth, I didn't keep 
close touch with people I left behind, but I think part of that was the quality of the relationship, 
and part of it, I think, was the alcoholism. But the people in Duluth, I think I was aware of that 
lack, and I made a real effort to keep connected with people, to make, to become more intimate 
in my relationships with people, and to keep those relationships going.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  22:24 
Was it difficult for you? I remember you said that you had a little trouble making friends with 
straight women. 
 
Margaret Anderson  26:00 
In, yeah, initially, yeah. Well, as I said, this friend of mine, Sharon, the one from Phoenix, is the 
first straight woman that I really allowed myself to feel really safe with. And some of that had to 
do with a fear, the fear that, gee, if I am, if I get too close, are they going to think that I'm trying 
to make a pass, you know, fear of showing any kind of physical affection. I think that's it, an idea 
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that what could we possibly have in common? And that was before I was a feminist. So, that isn't 
true, but that certainly was true back in my 20s and 30s.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  26:51 
Since you moved to Seattle, have you? Has it been easier in your 40s and 50s? 
 
Margaret Anderson  26:58 
I moved out here in my 50th year. I haven't had that much contact with straight people out here, 
as matter of fact. I got to know some of the, the [inaudible] [?apprentice?], some of the nurses I 
worked with, out at heights, but not really a close, intimate connection. The closest connections I 
made out here have been with lesbians and with this gay male. And I had two close lesbian 
friends that were already out here, and a couple other lesbians I knew from the [?Phoenix?] area 
that were also out here. But I've made some really important friendships here that I know that 
will be, from my point of view, that will be going on to the rest of my life, if people cooperate. 
So, I social, I probably socialized more-- My social life here has been more with lesbians than it 
was ever in before. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  28:02 
Did you find the community here real open to, to you? 
 
Margaret Anderson  28:07 
Yes, yeah, I did, and I made a real effort. There are, there are so many different little cliques, you 
know. And when I first came to town, I don't quite know how, how it all, it just kind of unfolded. 
But I, I was at a, I got invited, shortly after I came to town, to some parties or affairs that were 
put on by an organization. And I won't give it to name, because I know that the members don't 
like it talked about. But it's a, started out as a recreational club for women, I think around South 
King County area, it's almost about 18 years ago now. And you have to get, you have to attend 
some of their functions, state your intention to be a member, you have to come as a guest. You 
can only get there as guests, to begin with, from a member. And then, and then, if you really 
want to become a member yourself, you let that be known and you go to some of the functions, 
get to know people, and then you get voted on whether or not you get accepted into the group or 
not. And it's an interesting group of women there. There was mostly women, I think in their 40s, 
50s, 60s, couple women there, some women there in their 70s, and professional women, as well 
as, I think a lot of women that work at Boeing, people that have been really closeted, almost 
probably still are closeted. You get the sense that most of the group are very closeted, and some 
of them are still very much into roles, butch and femme kind of roles, but they are interesting 
women. And I think that younger lesbians have very little appreciation, you know, not all, I don't 
want to think, but a lot, a lot of the younger lesbians have a little appreciation of what, how 
difficult it was to be a lesbian, you know, 50 years ago. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  28:08 
Yeah, 70 years ago. 
 
Margaret Anderson  28:59 
Yeah, and, and those women are really much part of our history.  
 
Page 11 of 17 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  30:16 
Yeah, I, I know a lot of women who are really trying to get in touch with that history. you know, 
if there could be some sort of connection between younger women and older women.  
 
Margaret Anderson  30:28 
Yeah, there is a group called Association for Lesbian Professionals of Seattle that does have a 
more different, a different age grouping. But so-- and I went to some of their functions also. And 
then I went to, I went to Lesbian Resource Center when I first came to town, to the Thursday 
night group. And I think of all the three groups, people that I felt most connected to were at the 
Lesbian Resource Center. I really enjoyed the people I met there, I'm still friends with some of 
those people. And then they, then there was an over 40 group that got started there too, that I 
went to for a while and got to know people. And I'm really, I'm really a strong supporter of the 
Lesbian Resource Center, because I think that those groups-- and the Welcome to Seattle group I 
went to their Welcome to Seattle, it was an all day Saturday group. And then the person that did 
it asked me if I'd do it with her a couple of times. So after I got [?established?] then I did it a 
couple of times.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  30:57 
Oh, that's wonderful. I'm kind of curious about this anonymous organization you're talking about. 
Do you think-- they're still closeted, and this is because they're still closeted, this is why they're 
not very public about who they are?  
 
Margaret Anderson  32:00 
Oh yes. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  32:01 
Even in the lesbian community? 
 
Margaret Anderson  32:02 
Right, yeah. They, they meet monthly, they have monthly meetings, and then they have and they 
have meetings, and they always have sort of some dancing party with that. And then they have 
special occasions where they have special dances. I mean, really fancy, you know, affairs. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  32:02 
At the Weston? 
 
Margaret Anderson  32:27 
No, no, would you believe the dance hall at 19th and-- 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  32:32 
The Washington?  
 
Margaret Anderson  32:33 
No, no the dance hall, what it is called, is it? 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  32:31 
Page 12 of 17 
 
Yeah, it's called the Washington uh, 
 
Margaret Anderson  32:36 
19th and Republican or something down there.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  32:36 
Oh, St Joseph's. 
 
Margaret Anderson  32:46 
But no, it's, it's an actual dance hall. It's a dance theater, it's maybe called the Russian Hall or 
something. Yeah, the Russian Hall or something like that. Yeah, they often went to that place, I 
think.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  32:58 
So, were you allowed to become a member?  
 
Margaret Anderson  33:01 
Oh, I didn't ever, I didn't want to become a member, because they really didn't-- there weren't too 
many feminists there, really. That's one of the things that I did find, and I may have been making 
some judgments, I'm sure I were, I were? I was, and I still am, about that, but I found it really 
difficult to connect with women in their 50s and 60s, because most of them, I thought, had 
different, different value systems, political beliefs, and I've always felt more comfortable, I 
connected more with people in their late 30s and 40s. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  33:49 
When did you become a feminist?  
 
Margaret Anderson  33:50 
I don't know.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  33:52 
If anybody can answer that. 
 
Margaret Anderson  33:53 
Yeah, if I am, even. I don't know. I don't, I don't really know. I think it was a slow, slowly 
dawning thing. I can remember, when I worked at the child guidance clinic, being quite incensed 
by the fact that the psychiatrist really believed that that married men with family should get 
higher salaries than single women, even though they were doing comparable work. And that 
began to bug me, became a little aware that that didn't seem right. I would say probably about 
'72, 1972.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  34:35 
Just when everybody else did. That's what I hear.  
 
Margaret Anderson  34:40 
Oh, well.  
Page 13 of 17 
 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  34:41 
Just because there was that, the movement, in the late '60s and '70s. 
 
Margaret Anderson  34:44 
Yeah, yeah, I became more involved in the alternative, people in the alternative lifestyles, in 
Duluth. Became involved in the free clinic, then got to know some people there. And, and I think 
when I got into this relationship with Rosemary, the woman I'd been living with before, was not, 
not a feminist. She was pretty traditional, she was, she was an ex nun, by the way, and sort of 
closeted, basically, and really did not feel comfortable with most of the lesbians that I wanted to 
socialize with. I was beginning to get to know a few more lesbians, and I wanted to be more 
socially involved, and she did not want that. And I think that was part of the differences that 
began to make a difference our relationship.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  35:42 
Did you become politically active then? Did you join an organization or [?anything like that?]? 
 
Margaret Anderson  35:47 
No, I don't, I don't think I-- I was never as active, Rosemary was a very active, politically active 
person. No, I think my activity was, again, would be more like doing volunteer things with the 
[inaudible], being maybe on the board and being involved with the Coalition for Battered 
Women and being involved in the sexual assault program and in the free clinic. But I didn't that 
wasn't political. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  36:16 
I think that's political action. 
 
Margaret Anderson  36:18 
 Oh, is that it? Okay. There was a, I was part of a group that tried to get a woman's growth 
center, you know, going, in like a separate, you know, center in Duluth. But that, there just 
wasn't enough, enough people around to support it and keep it going. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  36:35 
Where were you? Where were you when the Stonewall Riots happened? 
 
Margaret Anderson  36:43 
I have to confess that I'm not all that aware of the Stonewall Riots.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  36:52 
Maybe I can refresh your memory. 
 
Margaret Anderson  36:53 
Give me a year and I can tell you when. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  36:55 
Well, I can't even remember myself, I think it was 1972 or 1971, around there. 
Page 14 of 17 
 
 
Margaret Anderson  37:01 
Was it, were they going on in New York?  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  37:03 
They were, yeah. There was a bar called the Stonewall Bar in New York that was harassed by 
city police officers and the gay people, mostly men, but later were [?joined?] by women, revolted 
and refused to take the treatment. They were beating up the people there, and they rioted for 
several days. 
 
Margaret Anderson  37:03 
I am-- 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  37:14 
Don't remember that? 
 
Margaret Anderson  37:21 
No. Well, it probably didn't hit the Duluth paper. I'm sure that's one of the Ritter. There's only 
one paper in Duluth, and it's owned by Ritter, and that's a pretty conservative group, and I 
probably wasn't watching news on television and in those days, I probably didn't get home from 
work in time to watch the evening news, and so, it wasn't in the local paper. I, you know, I really 
am ignorant of that history.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  37:56 
I think that there's a lot of people who would like to keep us ignorant about that, you know? That 
was really the beginning of the, of the gay movement. The Stonewall Riot started that out. Were 
you aware of-- 
 
Margaret Anderson  38:11 
I certainly was aware of the of the term Stonewall, you know, Riot, but I did not know the 
specifics. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  38:17 
Was there maybe in Duluth, an organization of gay men and lesbians who got together to be, you 
know, political? 
 
Margaret Anderson  38:27 
No, no. The course of the last about six years, there have been three different attempts to get an 
ordinance, a city one, you know, barring discrimination for, you know, because of sexual 
orientation of preference. And there has been some pulling together on that, but the coalition has 
really been made up of lesbian and gays and liberals, you know, and the people on the left, 
because that part of the northern Minnesota is the first place for the Communist Party, you know, 
the American Communist Party. Yeah, so, I have friends who are a friend who's a third 
generation atheist and Marxist communist, I guess not so much of a Marxist communist. And 
Rosemary has always been very active in that, Rosemary-- One of my friends, that's out here 
now has been, it's been painful, because finally they did, they did, the city passed it, and then the 
Page 15 of 17 
 
opposition got a referendum, you know, to call for a vote, and it was defeated, you know, three 
to one, and the people who have put themselves out are kind of marked, [inaudible].  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  40:09 
Where were you when Harvey Milk was murdered? Do you remember that, that was [?not too 
long ago?] at least. 
 
Margaret Anderson  40:11 
 Yes, again, you'd have to-- 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  40:13 
In '79, he was a representative. 
 
Margaret Anderson  40:25 
Oh, I know, I know the story, yeah. I guess I-- 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  40:32 
Do you remember that?  
 
Margaret Anderson  40:33 
-- was probably, yeah, oh, I remember it. Yeah, I don't, I don't remember exactly what I was 
doing. But again, that was just after I went through treatment, and, so, I do remember, that was 
[?scary?]. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  40:49 
How did that affect you and the women who were part of your community then? 
 
Margaret Anderson  40:55 
Well, I think the trial, I mean, it makes, the killing makes you angry, but then the jury's decision 
was the worst. I remember the, seeing the procession of the lights, I remember that, and then I 
remember something on, I think it was 60 Minutes, Harry Reasoner did something, oh, that was 
really angry. And it was about homosexuals, was it after that? I mean, there are always kooks 
going around, shooting people, if you're out, doesn't matter what you're out about. You know, if 
you're out, you're in danger. I bet the thing that, you know, was horrifying to me was the jury's 
treatment, the way they treat that whole affair and the way they-- 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  41:58 
Then they released him. 
 
Margaret Anderson  41:59 
 --let them off. Yeah, just disgraceful. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  42:04 
Are you ever afraid, as a lesbian, moving around in the city, moving around at your workplace? 
Are you afraid of being out and known, do you have a fear of people [?hurting?] you? 
 
Page 16 of 17 
 
Margaret Anderson  42:22 
The only time that I ever had that fear, I could feel that, because I could feel the hatred, was that, 
at one of those city council meetings, hearings in Duluth, you know, for, for that ordinance. The 
last one was, since I've been out here, the one previous to that, going to the hearing and the room 
being jammed full. I mean, they brought those, those moral majority people in bus loads with 
churches and I mean, they were so hostile. Yeah, that was, that was the one time that I was most 
aware of it, [?felt it worst?]. I can think of other times, I haven't felt that way here and felt that 
way at work ever. I've always felt okay at work.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  43:17 
Do you think Seattle is a fairly open city? 
 
Margaret Anderson  43:20 
Mm-hmm, yeah. Well, I must say, there was time at work when, back in Duluth, when some 
very disgruntled person that had worked at the mental health center one time and was working at 
a different place, he got the ear of somebody else who, in the community, who was kind of well 
known, and they, together, got the ear of a board member. And there was a bit of a fuss one 
point, a special board meeting for the directors of the clinic I worked at, and it was about the fact 
that we encouraged people, people who are getting, who are having problems, we encourage 
families into divorce, we encourage people to become homosexuals. There were staff members 
that were homosexuals, and there were even staff members who were ex nuns and priests, you 
know, married, and what's wrong about an ex nun and priest being married? But it was, there 
was just that whole focus, you know, that we were just all sinful and awful and terrible and didn't 
feel good. It went on for a couple of weeks that whole issue, until finally, at a board meeting, the 
board invited these people to come in and talk in front of the board instead of just separate 
members, and they didn't show up to do it. And then the board backed us all, [inaudible], yeah, 
but I think that was, that was probably, the one time I remember at work.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  45:07 
What's the new job? Can you tell me about your new job? 
 
Margaret Anderson  45:10 
My new job, if I had written it, it couldn't be better. It's great, it's, it's with a woman's growth, or 
well, women's treatment center in Minneapolis called Chrysalis that's been there about 20 years. 
Started, I think, with some grants and a lot of volunteer people. And it was support groups for 
women, and some like, there were lawyers that would go volunteer time to help women with 
legal problems, just a lot of support for women. And it's at least 20 years that that agency has 
been, [inaudible] late '60s. It's now, it's now a mental health program and a chemical dependency 
program, they're two separate programs, and has totally self supporting. The organization now 
has a board of directors, and it's considered a mental health center, it has mental health status. 
And the chemical dependency program is recognized within the state of Minnesota's credited 
programs, outpatient program. And my job is with the chemical dependency program. And half 
of my time I'm going to be doing outreach work with the lesbian community.  
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  45:27 
And you're getting paid for it. 
Page 17 of 17 
 
 
Margaret Anderson  46:28 
I'm getting paid for it, yes, with benefits, the kind of benefits that a feminist agency provides. 
You know, different than other-- 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  46:45 
What would those be?  
 
Margaret Anderson  46:46 
Well, one of them I know, and maybe other places do, but very specifically, personal policies 
that women with children can take sick leave to take care of their sick children and a week's 
personal leave each year, which you can go to therapy appointments if you want, you know, or 
see your dentist, or do whatever you want to do. And then, plus, you know, regular two weeks 
holiday to start that first year, plus 12 paid-- A two week vacation, plus 12 paid holidays. And 
you know, it's just wonderful. 
 
Kristin Boughton-Morin  47:18 
Yeah. 
 
Margaret Anderson  47:19 
Yeah. And anyway, so half the time, I'm going to be doing outreach work with the lesbian 
community, whatever, and then-- [recording stops]. 
 